Why Authentic Leaders Win: Culture, Creativity & Change with Tony Martignetti

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back, listeners of the Randomness of Nothing podcast. This is your host, Rashad Woods. As always, and promised, I bring exciting guests who bring different walks of life, perspectives, and inspire for you to be better versions of themselves. This man encompasses this with his inspiring thoughts and is the inspired purpose partners and he's a well-traveled coach, entrepreneur. This is Mr. Tony Martinetti. Thank you very much, and I'm honored to have you on here.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm thrilled to be here. We're gonna have a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I appreciate it. You also host workshops as well, too. So you're a well-rounded individual. So very much grateful for your time. Can you please give us some insight into your background, please?

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah, uh, before I got into this work, I spent uh quite a long time working in um in industry, particularly in high-tech and then biotech, um, working on the finance and strategy side of the house. So uh it was a wonderful journey, but I felt like something was missing, and that's what led me down this path that had me exploring a different um side of who I am, but also a part, a way to contribute differently.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

So, so and I looked at some of your videos, and you you host, you know, you're a TED Talk speaker. You also inspire teams, and I saw where you do like, you know, are your leadership advisor, you know, cheap illumination officer. I love the illumination, right? And I love one of your quotes where you said you want to make sure that you're a silo, not a constellation. So can you get into that a little bit? Because I was very curious about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Well, it's the other way around, it's more of a constellation versus a silo.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Because okay. Oh my god, did I hear that backwards? I probably heard the front.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

It's all good.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I wrote it backwards. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Yeah, I mean, you know, first of all, I'll just speak to the fact that illumination is uh um became very important to me because of the fact that I think it's um it's so important that we're not just you know being this walking around um with this inner light, not being exposed to others. You know, oftentimes I'm thinking about this idea of the lighthouse. You know, we uh we don't do it just for ourselves, but we do it to help others find their way. Right. And so light is a big part of that illumination process, but also this idea that you know, being um in a silo, you know, you're limiting the impact that you can have with others.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

And you're also limiting the the way that you can um create interconnections between different disciplines. So constellations are a wonderful way of looking at it because it's not just about how do I connect with others, but it's also how do I connect with different parts of myself and with different parts of what's out there? How do I become multidimensional? Right. And that's a big part of what I've been exploring over the years.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Do you find yourself like especially now in this era of you know, everybody went through COVID, right? And obviously they found out how lacking of human connection can really take a mental toll, you know, that that entire disaster that took place. And did you find people came out and really needed more human interaction than they thought that they needed? And that, you know, um doing having the ability to to talk to people and have purpose in their feelings, did you find people coming out of that different than what you saw previously?

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah, I mean, COVID was a was a what I call a big flash point. You know, that's a word that I use to say, you know, a moment that has ignited our collective um genius and you know, a collective uh reconciling of who we are. But I think the key thing is it was not just the only thing. Before that, we were also we were already starting to retreat into ourselves. And there was a lot of loneliness, a lot of people who were just not creating paths to being social the way we we should be. And when you think about it societally, you know, a lot of these uh if you look back to Europe and the way things that um you know other cultures used to be, it was always around community. It was always about taking care of each other. But slowly, slowly and surely we started to move away from each other and into an individualistic um path. And now we're at this place where you know, social media and all the things that we have, the technology has created even more separatism. Um and so I think the uh COVID created this thing of like, okay, now we're gonna reckon with this idea that we are we gonna be really separate or are we going to come back together post-COVID? And I think that's where people are now, is we need to figure out how do we reconnect in a meaningful way, create deeper connection, but also see each other differently. And I think that's one of the things that I've been really um focused on is how do we understand ourselves and then understand each other more fully.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Now, you obviously, you know, things have evolved where it's not just, you know, for lack of a better term, here's your assignment, do it. You know, people now base a lot of things on their value system, you know, whether it's or you know, and and and they they there's more research out there than ever before about cultures, you know, aka toxic places, places that don't really, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, you have to perform, but places that have been excessively rude or disrespectful, now that those things are out there and people are aware of it, do you find that there's as in your coaching journey that you've had to have some cultural adjustments in some places that, you know, were kind of like woeful Wall Street-ish kind of, or or so to speak, that kind of say, hey, this doesn't work with this new generation of people. You kind of need to understand that you're dealing with a different generation, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yeah, you know, I I'll I'll kind of speak to first of all, yes, absolutely, to you know, the the quick answer is yes. Yeah, but I also think of it as this way it's almost like how um I'll speak in the language of biotech because this is where where I came from. You know, um, a system, an organ will reject um uh something that comes into it and that you know it doesn't really fit into the ecosystem. So if you you know try to bring something into your body that doesn't belong there, the first thing it tries to do is defend against it. It's an outside intruder. And so oftentimes we need to figure out how do we build the immune system to create a path to uh um to protecting what we have inside. And I think that you know the reason why I'm speaking in this way is because we have to find out how do we create something really good and then protect what's good, right? Um and that incivility is something that sometimes is it's systemic, but we have to find ways to make sure that what is good can be protected, and then we can help that be the thing that spreads right uh inside of a system.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

For sure, for sure. And so I thought I thought it was very interesting, you know, when you said you I saw where you said one of your leaders that you were inspired by, I believe is the leader of Genzyme. It said, you know, he came by the desk and he wanted to know about you. It was human-centered, it was human-focused, right? Because you know, to have the leader or or somebody at a high level of a company come to, you know, the rank and file employees and really get to know them. Like, you know, oftentimes there's this impenetrable ceiling that they're not supposed to interact with some sort of level of person, right? When they could have came from the same environment, you know, so to speak. Right. So that says a lot to people that they're willing to come down to the quote unquote floor and be able to have those things, know, you know, see pictures of your kids' you know, events, ask about somebody's illness or passed away. And then it's not just about, I'm not just a cog in the wheel, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned that. And that's such an important aspect of you know, connecting with humanity, and it doesn't take a lot of effort to do that. I think there's a simple getting to know each other. It doesn't have to be about all the you know you know getting really super vulnerable, but it's just care showing people that you care is going to make people want to care more about what they do.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Um, and I think that is is something that really goes a long way. And those little moments, um micro moments of caring, can then amplify and continue to create ripples well beyond the moment. Right. So I think that's a key thing we can do to create more of a caring culture, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:19

And then, you know, you know, ultimately, you know, and and it helps them identify early trends too, because if you go down onto the floor or you go down to people's desk and then you sit back and say, you know, this is normally a high performing department person field that's operating, you know, this is a long-term employee. What happened, so to speak? And then either it could be a personal thing or they could say, you know, professionally speaking, this team is not doing this because of these particular reasons, right? As opposed to necessarily just getting the data sort of in front of you and and and and on to the next one, so to speak. But now you have that, you know, hey, we were here on Friday, now we're here on Thursday, everything seemed fine in that four-window period. You know that there could have been something more than just a you know, the market, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah, and this is why it's so critical to not move so fast. Uh, I know leaders and people in organizations are always thinking, like, go, go, go, go, go, that speed is the uh the rule of the day. We got to slow down and look at the things that we're missing. And that's where we can attune to what's really going on. And I think that's what you're speaking to is this idea of, you know, what is the temperature of this room? And how do I make sure that I'm attuned to what people are feeling, what is really going on? Because otherwise, you're gonna miss that and you'll and people will move on um and create their own sense of their um what's going on for them.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Do you find a generational difference when people are trying to find their value and their worth, right? So now you have kids who are, you know, the college market for all, you know, for coming in and being a professional is very hard for them to break into than it was even five, 10 years ago. And then you have a generation that's older that maybe you know is getting towards the tail end, and they're like, I've kind of peaked in my career. And then you have a generation that can't get entry points in the career. So when you're doing your speaking and your coaching, what kind of people are coming up to you and what organizations?

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Well, it it really runs a gambit from you know, people who are later in their careers to earlier in their careers. And everyone's seeking something similar, but they're coming at it from different angles. Similar meaning like they're everyone wants to find meaning in the work, but they also want to be seen for who they are.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

And I think that's something that's important when you touch that nerve in someone that says, like, you said something that really connected with, you know, me being overlooked for who I really am, and feeling like I go to organizations or work at companies, and they just constantly, you know, feel like I should be put in this box. And I don't want to be always put in that same box over and over again because I feel like there's so much more of me than they see. And so that's one of the things that's really frustrating. But I also feel like there's motivations that keep people in this stuck mode. Fear of being, you know, overlooked because they're old, you know, on the um later in their career, and fear of not being able to make momentum in the early start parts of their careers. I mean, when you you keep on getting the messages that are coming out of social media, and they're not fake really, but that you know, that there are no jobs out there, that there are, you know, that people are being overlooked, AI is on the horizon, it's taking jobs, without question, all those things are really challenging and they don't they don't just affect us on the surface level, they're getting to us deep down, right, and creating a visceral inner turmoil about like, well, what do I do now?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

And who am I?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, I think that it definitely adds to people's stresses and anxieties, right? Because oftentimes, you know, they realize that it you need to adapt to in real time to what's taking place. You know, it's not you know, you can't obviously there are factors that are out of your control, but I I've I've just in general speaking terms, it has a tendency for companies to overcorrect when there's a trend that takes place, right? Like everybody went all in on streaming, right? Like we have to be a streaming platform, and then everybody realized how inherently expensive it was, and now you see all these mergers and acquisitions that are taking place because even though they're pumping out content, some of these streaming platforms weren't profitable, right? And then now you see, you know, so now they have to put the quote unquote toothpaste back in the tube because but everybody wanted to go in that direction. So now that you're looking at these generational changes, you know, and I think, and I don't want to overspeak you, but I think people have a tendency to realize that they've kind of woken up, so to speak, because everybody was like, get the four-year degree, and everything's gonna work itself out, so to speak, right? You'll have you know, 2.5 kids, the minivan, the pension, the whole nine yards, right? And now people are like, wait a minute, that's kind of a fool's game.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Yeah, and I I love that you bring this up. First of all, I you know, this this whole angle that you've taken is you know, the direction we're heading is a great way to think about this. Is that we need to be thinking about our own path success. You can't just keep on looking at the the average person's definition or what success looks like in societal terms. We need to start thinking like, God, if everyone's going left, what does right look like? I don't mean that in political terms. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. You know, what is my definition of success? And how can I be the most um abundant and most fulfilled version of me, right? Which is gonna look very different than anyone else. Um the problem is when we start to kind of go to the norm, we start to go to everyone's doing this, and therefore I need to do that, then we compare ourselves to everyone else, and then we never can measure up.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Without question.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Um, so I think the best thing we can do is trying to figure out what makes us weird, what makes us interesting, weird in a good way, what makes us um uniquely us, and how do we create create our value in our own way, right? And do that.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

And even when it feels like it's not working, keep doing it, keep trying new angles in the same thing. Because what happens is that's where we create the most fulfilling path to our own life.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

There's no well, that's the thing, right? So, like, you know, when you're in Kai, and you're not not too far from age from me, I'd imagine, right? So, you know, um, I'm 43, so we're probably of the same ilk, you know, watching He-Man and, you know, his kids and all those things. Yes, you know, so there's this, there was this mentality from, you know, that was like, you have to get on on the on the honor society, you have to make sure you fill out all your fast food. I mean, because if you don't get that four-year degree, somehow you're deemed as a failure, you know, or you're, you know, it all permeated in people's minds that everybody kind of had to go on this, you know, next some shady kind of factory assembly line that you had to all be the same, you know. If you didn't have the degree, you were a failure. And if you didn't graduate from that big big school, that was a failure. And if you were to tell, you know, your parents, like, hey, I want to be a chef, or hey, you know, I want to, I want to be, you know, a carpenter, somehow that was looked down upon, even if that was your passion, because everybody needed to have the MBA or the business degree, so to speak. And I think it missed the mark and it led to a lot of the speeches that you're giving. And I only say this because I can imagine a lot of people would say, I wish I followed my passion. I wish I truly would have just taken that chance. Even if I didn't get paid immediately, I was happy.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yeah. So I just love what you're sharing because this is exactly, you know, everyone's going at their own pace, and that's wonderful. I mean, you think about um, you know, the well-meaning adults, and like, I mean, for me, I had the same experience. I was an artist who was gonna potentially become an architect. Then I switched into pre-med and then eventually led down this path of like, look, I'm not going to be a doctor because that's not really who I am. Right. But I ended up working, you know, getting into business and spending time in biotech, which was wonderful. But at the end of the day, you know, we have to kind of follow the threads of like, what is it that is my path and go at my own pace and figure out where that leads? You know, people who don't go to get a college degree um can still be a billionaire, never mind a millionaire. Yeah, the key thing is just to continue to figure out, you know, what is this thread fall um creating for me? How do I continue to show up every day, do the work, and um and not expect other people to give to me. I mean, you have to put in the effort and find the connections that that open the door for you.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

You know, it was it was almost like I was listening to uh one time on YouTube when Ice T said the first time you heard MM, and he was like, he was like, it's hard for me to hear people's music and actually listen to it because everybody sounds the same. And he's like, then I hear this guy's you know demo and he's talking about put his girlfriend, and I'm not advocating for this for people who are listening. He's like, I hear this guy talking about his girlfriend in the trunk of the car, you know, and he's like, yo, I've never heard anybody say anything like this. So he was like, he was telling people, like, if you want people's attention and you want to stand out, think about what everybody else is doing and do something completely different. And he was like, he said he was blown away. He was like, I listen to demos all the time, and he's like, I never heard anybody say that, you know what I mean? So I'm paraphrasing, you know, obviously when Eminem did was fictitious, so this is not the show where we advocate, you know, those type of behaviors, but artistically he he he stood out, right? Because he was like, This is who I was and this is who I am, and I think that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

I love that you bring Eminem into this because I think he's he is an interesting character for that reason, for many reasons. I mean, just you know, the way he brought in Dido to the song Stan, you know, a lot of interesting things that he weaved in that made it interesting. Now, of course, he's not perfect. I mean, no one's perfect, but that's great. I mean, that's kind of what we're looking for. Another artist who came to mind for me was uh in a very different genre because I just happened to um be at South by Southwest this past week. And Jack Johnson, um, this you know, surf musician, yeah, you know, he was he was a uh a champion surfer. I mean, well uh you know, he won many different competitions as a surfer. Then he transitioned into making films and then became a musician. So he had three different paths, an arc that he probably didn't expect any of those things to all come together. But now when you look at him, you can see how all three of them influenced each other.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Right. And you see how things happen organically with people because they keep carving out that lane, and then you realize sometimes, and companies are are notorious for this because they think that things aren't gonna work because that the audience they made up the audiences or the or mind for them and didn't realize how big of an actual audience there was for certain things. And I only say this not to go too much off a tangent, was John Wick. I just watched a documentary on the making of the John Wick movies, right? It's on Peacock, it's wonderful. And there was no confidence that that movie was gonna get made or make a lot of money because John, you know, Keanu Reeves hadn't had a hit in a long time. It was about a hit man and his dog, and you're just like, but they the kind of the lack of confidence they had into it became this sleeper hit, but it was shaky cam action movies before that, and this was a real stunt man making movies with a guy who was really trained in martial arts, and there was an audience starved for that type of material, and they didn't know how badly people really wanted that until it went to South by Southwest or a film festival and was seen, and then it blew up, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah. I mean, now how many how many John Wick films have there been now?

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Four. Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

So, you know, obviously we can get I don't want to get too much into pop culture on there, so I apologize for that. So can you explain about like your coaching and your workshops and you know what you do in that regard?

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah, I mean, the big part of my work is is really helping people to uncover what I call hidden brilliance. And it really comes from this element of discovering um elements of themselves that maybe they've sidelined or felt like it didn't belong in their professional world. And through this process, I get into this thing called, you know, distillation, which is allowing them to figure out what is they can bring back to the table, how do they play with that identity and integrate it into their world and then design around that. So this whole, I'm using a lot of D words because it's called the Illumination Framework and it's around four D's discover, distill, design, and then deliver. And through this process, it's not just an individual endeavor, it's also something that teams can do together that allows them to not only get to know themselves, but also figure out how to connect better together so that they can innovate, create together. Uh, and I've taken it to one more level, which is the I've also created this thing called Illumination Councils, which I facilitate inside organizations uh and allow them to do the work and with a guide, uh, myself taking them through this journey to discover themselves together.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

How do you how do you and this is gonna sound like a corny question? How do you get the people on board that look at team building exercises and kind of say, Oh, yeah, you know, they roll their eyes, you know, they're the first one that they sit the closest to the door, they go, they're there just for the coffee and donuts, and then as soon as they're trying, how do you rope that person in?

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Yeah, you know, uh against their will. That was it. Uh uh No, honestly, it it's first you have to kind of build a container of trust. And I think the key thing is to say, hey, look, how are things working the way they are right now? If there's something that you're finding that's not working well, are you willing to try something different? You know, are you willing to explore a path that would potentially give you a different result than you've already had? And if that is something that um if you engage them in a vision of something that's different, that's might break the door open a little bit. And then I get them into the things that really will uh break down the barriers. And that one thing is I have them do art or create something, do something creative. Because what that does, it gets them out of their mind and into their um something that's a little bit foreign to them, usually. And so through this process, they start to really um do something different.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

You know, it's interesting because people want to get their voices heard until you actually get them in a room to have them hear get their voice to be heard. And then you're like, wait a minute, dude, you complain for like six months that nobody listens to what you have to say. We hold a meeting in good faith that we want to actually hear what you have to say, and then the first thing you want to do is how quick is this over.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Yeah, I mean you have to take them through an arc, you know. I have to get them to uh get out of their heads and into their hearts. And uh at some point that um that arc allows them to really move away from having to know and just um to embody who they are. And one of the things I always think about is this uh this comes from my first book, second book, um, which is about convert divergent minds and convergent hearts. And this idea of like, we want people who think differently to get in rooms and to share how they think, not always have to agree, but what we want them to do is to care about each other. And that's where the convergence of hearts means is it's like even if they leave still not agreeing, that's fine. But what you want them to do is to care enough about each other that they're like, yeah, I got you. I see you.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah, it and I think that goes a long way because the reality about it is this is that you know, you're never the smartest person in the room. And you know, I've said a thousand times on this show that the one fortunate distinction is I'm not smart enough to create what y'all do. I'm really not like you know, I've biotech and you know, people who are finance engineers and you know, people who invent things. I'm like, listen, I'm just a guy that talks to you all. Like, so I get the force of the distinction where I'm like, you can tinker in your garage for six to eight months and you know, MVP and prototype it. I'm just fortunate enough to ask and talk to you all. But I I don't I don't slight myself on that, but I understand I'm in a much different position in the same sense that you know what you guys do and putting yourself out there is in a tremendous amount of work and a tremendous amount of good. And I'm sure you've heard some heartbreaking stories throughout your entire travails because people really do have, you know, carry the world of and burdens on their shoulders. So for that, I want to thank you for the work that you do. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Thank you. This has been wonderful, and I think you know, it the key thing is knowing, you know, what it is that you uniquely bring to the table and knowing that you don't have to have all the answers. What you do need to have is uh your presence and how you bring your unique brilliance into the 75% of it is actually just having halfway decent people skills, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

And that's why you see people who can jump from different businesses to different businesses, even if they don't have a meaningless, they can jump from packaging to to to biotech to to to you know food because they know processes and they know people. They may not know exactly how to make the product at hand, but they have a good idea of the feel of the room.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yes, you got it.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, so where can people I was asked this question, and obviously, you know, your story is not encompassed in a 25, 20, 30, 30 minute interview, but where can people find Tony Martinetti?

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Oh, the best way to find me is on my website, TonyMspeaks.com. Um, so you can find me there. That's my new website. So there's a few kinks being worked out, but you can find me there. Uh and you can also find me on LinkedIn, uh Tony Martinetti, uh, with a one at the end, not an I.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Yeah, yeah.

unknown 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Drop that in the in the chat. I'm very active on LinkedIn, always sharing what I can to help elevate the voices there.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

So I would encourage people if you if the worst thing you can do is sit on your couch and hope for a break. Is hope for you're not gonna wish anything to existence. You know, I always wanted to do a podcast, but you know, nobody was gonna force me off my couch to actually interview people until I was willing to fall flat on my face doing it. Um so I'd rather fail trying and you know, um, you know, take that to my grave. And that's the truth. Um, so I want to thank you for your inspiring words and wisdom and continued uh success to the work that you do.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Thank you so much, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

I appreciate you. Stay warm, okay? You bet. Well, that was fun.