The Industry Authority: Why Michael Krebs and Thomas Baker Built Gold Star AI for Enterprise Scale

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[SPEAKER_00]: Innovation AI new technologies 21st century everything that we talk about and we hear about in the news I got two gentlemen here with me who I've had the pleasure of partnering with gold star AI Mr. Thomas Baker Mr. Michael Krebs We've always kind of talked by emails and by zoom calls and now that we have them as official guests on this show Thank you so much for being on your guys

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[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good one.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Richard.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is dope stuff, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, you guys are entrepreneurs, and this is the show that's about entrepreneurship, but it's also about personal growth.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes people only see the beautiful cake, but they don't see the baking in the background to how it really took what the steps took to get you guys where you are right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Can you guys explain time and sell that you take the lead first and then we'll segue to Michael.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, a bit of background, currently I'm a teaching at Harvard Business School.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it stumbled upon that kind of entrepreneurship journey of like, okay, now I'm trying to teach the lessons and like their better term, a bunch of the groups that I made and see how many people I can convert.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's been a blast.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Goldstar AI has spun up as an idea of whether or not you could build a fully autonomous company.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And we set out the kind of experiment after experiment trying to test that and just like any scientist, you know, most of your experiments fail.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so we built a mechanism that just iterates over and over and over again until we can, you know, effectively AB tests are self into oblivion.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to we're going to find it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It took, you know, we've been able to do it in a much shorter time because of the technology and you know, Michael nice background and previous experience, but that also came from a laundry list of failed companies that we had started.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We tried to take off.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We have famously, I had a nuclear thermal rocket company at the time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: My background's a physics and natural jury.

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[SPEAKER_02]: that did not take off.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's that's that's become tough.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of lessons learned and a lot of a lot of learn in the regulatory bodies as well eventually, especially when you start making mistakes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man, you know, and so and that's one of the things that we talked about now I've talked to obviously Michael a little bit more than yourself Michael, you know, what's your background like an entrepreneur ship what were those failures like and you know that the palm of head against the table because for a long time you're trained to be you know the worker be but then when you decide to step out on your own it's a lonely place

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[SPEAKER_01]: yeah it is way more pounding your head against the table.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think I would like to admit but I think it's it's also just about like you know understanding what things you can take forward from pounding your head on the table and like it's tapping your table, pounding your head on the table in a productive way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but yeah, I mean my background is pretty entrepreneurial Started out in college Had a couple companies ended up selling one of them which is cool.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's dope You know had some smaller companies out of school and it was fortunate to have a join a start-up

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[SPEAKER_01]: as one of the first employees that grew up at the uniform where I learned at the time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then after that joined Blue Origin, this weird wacky group that Thomas and I were in, where we can't get into too much of what we were doing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it was pretty wild in terms of the stuff we were coming up with.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I always just had this entrepreneurial bet that, you know, just my parents had business as grandparents had businesses.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I always sort of made sense.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, right before this, I was running a company called DataFresh, which was...

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[SPEAKER_01]: real estate newsletter for real estate agents which was great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was a cool product.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It just didn't work super well and the you know market wasn't great but I learned so much there particularly what it takes you know leverage these AI systems to build an autonomous company.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right and that's where Thomas and I teamed up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He has the rocket science brain and has access to all of these amazing tools and you know the individual

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, kick around in Southeast Asia and hospital.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's not actually caused trouble.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was just eating a lot of food.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know and so that you know and when we talk about autonomous right so it's very scary for people right now like fool you know because people see you know the negativity that's associated with it they think that there's things they're going to be people who are going to be replaced they think that you know their skillset may not be up to par when it comes to this ever-pollving ever-changing you know economy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, having said all that it is here, people have to embrace it and change is coming place real quick.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Where you guys at the forefront of it before this really started kicking off or how do you stem people's thoughts and processes and how to integrate this now in their everyday lives?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take this one really quick, Thomas, I don't want to hand this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think the full autonomy, it's a bit of a buzzword and it sounds great, but in practice, I think it actually comes out to probably like 90% autonomy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The thing you can't outsource is taste and decision-making is that all of the agents that we build, we outsource the execution.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you build these systems that can execute whatever it is you're trying to execute, but

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a question.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Train these agents in the program then is to be able to execute at whatever the best version of what you would do is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But you can spread that across a team of what would be like a hundred.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You have to tell it what to do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can't make it that out of the box out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So Thomas, I'll hand it up.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's so to answer your question.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I spent a amount of time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I left blue to go join a traditional model company and do.

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[SPEAKER_02]: like early model development research, which in a state startup format was a series of its own challenges for sure, especially in kind of developing the new technology, and I originally started with trying to solve problems for myself.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And figure out, okay, well, I can sell these problems.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And this makes my life little easier.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Does it help anybody else?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And research research research, and you go, oh, you have that problem.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And if the question came, yeah, it became far more, and this is kind of stuffly over with my students as well, is that it's entirely human interaction.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there is a network effect where you can have a, you know, what could be an AGI and I'm not an intelligence if necessary, but there is still an aspect that is,

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[SPEAKER_02]: It is a human network that this is built upon and it is a human network that we use to interact with.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so the benefit, even with all the research and all the agents that were able to spin out, we will turn this into something that helped us understand people better first, understand their problems, understand their pain points, and then start sitting with those people and going, oh, you have the problem too.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we actually have met these like nine other people that have that same problem.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, the question for that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's crucial, and there's something to the effect of just being a person that

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right, just being a, you know, kind hard to understanding them being genuine in your, right now, like the, you know, disingenuity if that, that term, it brings, it's true is that, you know, there's a farmer AI slot that has ever existed.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There is the ability to generate all this content.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And generate all these, like, called e-mails, so what differentiates you and the thing that differentiates you is your expertise.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What's that question?

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[SPEAKER_02]: What's that question?

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[SPEAKER_02]: The ability?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and you know it's funny now because everybody's a subject matter expert, right, even it feels that they weren't previously right and so it's you know I myself you know have learned to you know Gradually started racing certain things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it's okay because now that I'm making this show it's very hard to let certain things call right because this is your project.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is this is me if I'm not directly involved with it

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[SPEAKER_00]: But in order to evolve and create and make something that people want to consume, there are things that need to be automated so that that way you can get back to the base of actually making the product and the service that actually provides value to people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you have those automatic social media posts, even though I despise, doing social media myself, I truly do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But those are things that start to loosen up your plate to be able to have more interviews like this and so you start to realize that It's an innovative tool that lets you get back to what your essence of what you were actually making before

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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It lets you do more of what you started this thing to do in the first place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It says, you know, writing captions and editing, you know, podcasts.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's less of the boring stuff and more of what you signed up to do in the first place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That is obviously, which makes for you, for us, for a lot of people we speak to.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What I want to do is talk to people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do more of that in less email.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, trust me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm much better at that than, you know, you know, if you, I'd be your first fire engineer in the same day that you ever had, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And you're going to be your hardest boss, too.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the thing, I mean, especially if anybody listening to your show and the audience, you're trying to, there are people building.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There are people who want to be able to change your circumstance or understand what business they want to build and the challenges ahead.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the best advantage that has been is, yeah, I can solve a, you know, can build that single tool for you, right, help people that is designed to let you iterate 11 times where you could only

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[SPEAKER_02]: So iterate learn, run another experiment, run another experiment, and now you can run 11 experiments at once and get a lot of data back that the problem is getting sucked into the, you know, this there's an optimization track where you're like, I can, oh my gosh, I'm going to keep doing this, I'm going to keep building I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep vibe coding this, and it becomes, you know, till you're 3 a.m. you're like, I think this might be a gambling.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a, so it is about, it's for sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's tough to always want to, you know, fine-tune your pitch as a podcast house, but it's tough to hit the record button, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like you just keep doing more notes and doing more research.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, you know, I'll be more ready as long as I know more information about this guest, but I don't actually want to go live and actually record because then the real deal is coming out, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the, the real deal is scary, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So just be.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting thing, too, that we have noticed operating in this AI forward world.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is it's almost like a productivity theater, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: AI can make you feel like you're super productive, and you can spend 12 hours a day doing something, and doing stuff, and it's going to continue to validate you that, like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You should continue.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You should add this feature and it's like, oh, you know, you can spend 12 hours a day and have gotten gotten aware.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one thing Thomas and I do is we keep each other very Just one of us on our own We get caught in that trap.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You need another person.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you almost have to, you know, at the end of the day, right, you like, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was, keep it simple, okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's enough to have a prototype.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what the reason this show was created, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: To tell people if you're making something innovative, have a baseline point of where you're kind of satisfied, test it with enough people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, if it did solve your problem, you know, I've, and you research it that it could solve other problems for people, put it out there so that way you can't fine tune it as it comes, you know, there's always next layers and next steps.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's how Apple became like, behemoth that it did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't try to solve everything all in once.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You try to solve an immediate problem that was in front of people and then as the company with in technology got more innovative decades later, they were solving additional problems for people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And customer feedback, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're putting it out in the world and hearing what people have to say about it, not just asking the chatGVT if it's good.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So here's an interesting thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, bit small businesses.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this is going to streamline your operations.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What's the onboarding process like when, you know, I don't want to get to in the nuts and bolts of, you know, your guys and sales process, but what businesses pain points do they necessarily have that goals start as that value add to that business owner.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the family dynamics were the son, you know, it's like fighting with the father who was like, did everything by pen and paper and it's like, dad, this is the way to do things now.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's so much of them because the, you know, the systems that worked for a generation previous, why would they change?

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[SPEAKER_02]: It worked.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm telling you, tin you're doing this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This is how we've always done it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And there's, there's a method that madness, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't want to totally discredit it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But as far as the ability to adapt to this, it becomes a, like, a slow boil.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's all right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, maybe we can take on.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We noticed like the one thing we know like when we started building like we had to build a spin up these agents We built it like a bad near, you know, military grade research engine to be able to help us understand this and from our technology side But what the the advantage was is in finding out how the business is done on paper

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then going and talking with them and then finding the that this is actually done in real life.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then finding the delta between them how like what the amount of change is and like it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, all of this hell is a should run on paper.

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[SPEAKER_02]: This is what Jackie B. told me this business from the paper.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a contracting business or a contract distribution business that's finding plumbers and electricians, the more literal example we have.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then you go and talk to them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, no, I've known these guys for 40 years.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, here's the team that I use.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, here's the people that end they have these network of relationships that does not come out on paper.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And in fact, it might actually be written down on paper.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So figuring out where those sets source of knowledge is, but also understanding, hey,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we know how this is done on paper.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We know what the books look like.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We have a bunch of research.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure there's a case study out there, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: But when I go sit down and talk with them, and they're like, yeah, I've known Jerry, since it's like, how did you find Jerry?

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[SPEAKER_02]: You go, you know, you lived down the street.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And what do you, I was like, okay, and then you guys built a multimillion dollar business together and like a mass network.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, those relationships are not, are definitely not to be underestimated.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a question.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a question.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think too when it comes to like going into a business to start out, we really opt to go in and try to figure out what sucks the most, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What a big total.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Currently, that is just like, what is plaguing your day, what is plaguing your week?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because we can, from a technology perspective, we can build agents to do just about whatever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I have been in the technology today.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You go in and you're like, all right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's fix this one immediate problem.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you see 10 feet in front of your eyes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of like six inches in front of your eyes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's our question.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That we're like, what else is wrong?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's would be good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then you can start to build a foundation from there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But until you think you're that immediate blocker.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.

15:09.400 --> 15:27.417
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, into your point it's like that older kind, you know, let's say if he does contract out plumbing, you know, and services and things of that nature, right, and he started to deploy, you know, a new generation of people who do have cell phones tablets and necessarily don't like listen, you know, we're going to automate your consumer base so that way you can just go from one point with to the next.

15:27.917 --> 15:32.598
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you're like that electrician company, you're like, hey, I got different electricians that are going to get deployed.

15:32.978 --> 15:37.599
[SPEAKER_00]: And that way, this is a viable sales lead, this is what the customer needs in advance.

15:37.639 --> 15:41.300
[SPEAKER_00]: These are the new prospects and customers of different bases that you have.

15:41.660 --> 15:50.503
[SPEAKER_00]: And that gentleman or that woman may have been calling them, you know, just from, you know, memory, or just from a spreadsheet, so to speak, because they still need to evolve and grow.

15:50.663 --> 15:51.303
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that

15:51.803 --> 15:53.905
[SPEAKER_00]: deploying things that take that off their plate.

15:54.385 --> 15:58.549
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are sensitive conversations because at the same time they have relationships that you just can't touch.

15:58.889 --> 16:03.293
[SPEAKER_00]: But a nice happy medium of their pain points is really the best way to approach that.

16:03.333 --> 16:04.775
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys do a wonderful job with that.

16:05.642 --> 16:19.286
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it totally, I appreciate you saying it, it's come from, you know, for the record hundreds hundreds of mistakes and very kind people and a lot of, you know, apologies that was not what we intended.

16:19.386 --> 16:21.267
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's, let's try and remedy this, right?

16:21.487 --> 16:21.807
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

16:21.827 --> 16:23.408
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're mistakes when you make them.

16:23.428 --> 16:23.708
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course.

16:23.728 --> 16:27.529
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that I'd say is that especially in the AJI, especially as we're building.

16:28.489 --> 16:30.750
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a term, you know, the graveyards, right?

16:30.790 --> 16:34.271
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the people who have been around the industry and they've been around the block.

16:34.351 --> 16:35.211
[SPEAKER_02]: They've seen this before.

16:35.251 --> 16:46.194
[SPEAKER_02]: They've, and one of the better parts, and a good way to look at this when you're trying, you're home with a business or you have a, you know, hey, Dad, this is, we have a new system for this.

16:46.254 --> 16:51.835
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, please, for love God, you may not have to learn Excel, but just any, like, we can do better than this, right?

16:53.376 --> 17:01.339
[SPEAKER_02]: And but the I think what a good way to look at it as well is to kind of reframe that in Okay, this is someone with tacit knowledge.

17:01.779 --> 17:17.105
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing we can't capture right tacit knowledge is that's that's the advantage that When we find someone who is an expert in their field right now has done this for like 50 years That tacit knowledge is stuff that they can't necessarily communicate if you can help them communicate that Yes, that is where the gold might is

17:18.566 --> 17:21.949
[SPEAKER_02]: You're dead, may not want to change, but he doesn't want to change because he's done these things before.

17:21.969 --> 17:23.790
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's relationship for based off.

17:23.830 --> 17:42.725
[SPEAKER_02]: This is how a system, if you can everyone kind of operates a little bit like a system's architect where they start looking at a system like, okay, so what goes in and what comes out, what information comes in to my dad and what comes out when he does this processing when he does these operations and then that becomes the way to build a, you know, I system, okay, I have these inputs and I have these up.

17:42.825 --> 17:44.207
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's look at it like a system,

17:47.465 --> 17:56.170
[SPEAKER_02]: Your dad can still stay in that same box, he can still stay in that operation, but it allows you to kind of start looking, okay, well, let me take this out of this plate, this can go around, right?

17:56.250 --> 17:56.570
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

17:56.590 --> 17:57.570
[SPEAKER_02]: You can be some processing.

17:57.851 --> 17:59.952
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's breaking on the problem a little bit better and a little bit better.

17:59.992 --> 18:03.934
[SPEAKER_02]: But the key, also, I, you know, one thing that Michael and I are still.

18:04.534 --> 18:12.397
[SPEAKER_02]: learning over and over again is there's a term in electrical engineering and engineering is like a control system, right?

18:13.518 --> 18:20.700
[SPEAKER_02]: When I have something goes in, something comes out and I read the output and I change the input, right?

18:20.820 --> 18:23.742
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, how do I know I need to correct?

18:24.042 --> 18:26.443
[SPEAKER_02]: And these correction mechanisms are the

18:27.717 --> 18:35.062
[SPEAKER_02]: the quarterstone of how AI operates, but it's also how we should start looking at our own businesses, how we're looking at our own entrepreneurship.

18:35.363 --> 18:37.624
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that like, yeah, I need to know what I'm screwing up.

18:38.064 --> 18:39.185
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to know what I'm screwing up.

18:39.205 --> 18:40.907
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, that's not one's failing, right?

18:40.927 --> 18:45.450
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to know when the system is mine, it's gone and it's failing, it needs to scream at me.

18:46.170 --> 18:49.313
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a customer, it's a person, if it's someone texting in the middle of the night, right?

18:49.673 --> 18:55.477
[SPEAKER_02]: And saying, hey, this service went down, hey, I need something, it's something that you can kind of build to catch those errors.

18:56.236 --> 18:58.099
[SPEAKER_02]: and it's going to take some iteration for sure.

18:58.159 --> 18:59.302
[SPEAKER_02]: It took us a ton of iteration.

19:00.433 --> 19:01.294
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's also funny.

19:01.314 --> 19:03.735
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you can confuse a habit for hard work, right?

19:03.775 --> 19:07.418
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, if something's your, your baby, your project, right?

19:07.938 --> 19:14.343
[SPEAKER_00]: Even the thing that's like horrible, if you're not doing it, you feel like you're not working on what you build.

19:14.723 --> 19:16.624
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a weird way of putting things, right?

19:16.664 --> 19:22.628
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, when I record my episodes, and then I've automated some things, and maybe it took me less time.

19:23.049 --> 19:27.251
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually get kind of concerned now because I'm like, how hard did I really work on my show now?

19:28.272 --> 19:30.434
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it shouldn't have took that short amount of time.

19:31.174 --> 19:35.818
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, am I degrading my product because it didn't take me five and six hours?

19:35.878 --> 19:37.159
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it only took me one or two.

19:37.540 --> 19:50.190
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, picture that with a business owner, you know, over decades, who stayed up late at night, that suddenly has five hours off of their plate, and they're like, if the things are running smoother, and they're like, no, no, I'm not comfortable with that.

19:50.550 --> 19:50.830
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

19:51.450 --> 19:52.571
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

19:52.591 --> 19:52.891
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

19:53.771 --> 19:54.352
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

19:54.392 --> 19:54.712
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

19:54.752 --> 19:55.272
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

19:55.832 --> 19:56.592
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

19:56.833 --> 20:00.674
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also the, like, the kill your darling's kind of understanding, isn't like, Yeah.

20:00.894 --> 20:02.535
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I work hard and so on to this.

20:02.575 --> 20:05.256
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I, you know, this is, this is something that, you know,

20:06.016 --> 20:18.944
[SPEAKER_02]: I put so much energy effort money into and then for someone to come by and say and it sucks And you're like, no, no, it's like you have to like there has to be a way to like one communicate that effectively, right?

20:19.065 --> 20:33.734
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I constantly I'll go to Michael and I'll be like, hey, I have this idea He goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

20:33.974 --> 20:34.234
[SPEAKER_02]: to hear.

20:34.994 --> 20:36.935
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a challenge.

20:37.015 --> 20:41.416
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, there's a term that someone mentioned to like, and a kind of billed body, right?

20:41.456 --> 20:44.857
[SPEAKER_02]: As someone who you can use for a few accountable, and you can bounce this off of.

20:44.917 --> 20:52.000
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, for sure, you built an entire ecosystem in a community that seems to be really good at this, which I, I, I, I, I, I want to know how much we value this.

20:52.100 --> 20:52.400
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

20:53.500 --> 20:55.322
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, it takes a lot to build a community.

20:55.342 --> 20:55.943
[SPEAKER_02]: Woo!

20:55.963 --> 20:57.044
[SPEAKER_02]: That'd be back a little, man.

20:57.425 --> 20:57.885
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.

20:58.726 --> 20:59.387
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

20:59.907 --> 21:08.017
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, you know, in one of the beauty about, you know, putting yourself out there, you know, and you guys do the hard work and just to pivot.

21:08.637 --> 21:12.682
[SPEAKER_00]: People sometimes only see the final picture, so they only see the age instead of deployed.

21:12.982 --> 21:15.323
[SPEAKER_00]: They only see the businesses that you're helping.

21:15.363 --> 21:28.170
[SPEAKER_00]: They only see, you know, while he's went to a social, you know, national social media awards or you're teaching a hard for business school, but that goes through a lot of pain points and errors that people sometimes aren't willing to go through.

21:28.590 --> 21:35.854
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times, you know, it is very lonely, you know, and you are there by yourself and you're just trying to figure it out.

21:36.314 --> 21:41.977
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are doing a new technology that involves a lot of moving pieces.

21:42.908 --> 21:51.717
[SPEAKER_00]: What was that like when you're trying to figure out, okay, these are enough moving pieces and I need to make sure this works really well before I add another feature.

21:53.216 --> 21:56.318
[SPEAKER_01]: I think how we got out of this.

21:56.398 --> 22:02.503
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, we built so much crap that we just do not use this.

22:02.903 --> 22:07.867
[SPEAKER_01]: I cannot tell you how much just like terrible stuff we built this.

22:07.987 --> 22:10.428
[SPEAKER_02]: I was up to 2 a.m. last night doing it.

22:10.488 --> 22:11.829
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like filtering it out.

22:12.230 --> 22:14.311
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Thomas has been calling me saying, what was this?

22:14.912 --> 22:16.193
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you push into December?

22:16.213 --> 22:17.113
[SPEAKER_01]: This is terrible.

22:17.133 --> 22:17.814
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't know.

22:18.374 --> 22:21.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because maybe it was the thing, right?

22:21.717 --> 22:23.038
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.

22:23.198 --> 22:24.599
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm telling you, you look back.

22:25.039 --> 22:39.190
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think the the best way that we do that is like We make sure that every single thing we're doing is somehow tied to grab them Yeah, let's get back to my point of like the productivity leader because A.I.

22:39.210 --> 22:40.791
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I saw this debate about batteries.

22:41.031 --> 22:43.153
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so easy to just like spin your wheels.

22:43.513 --> 22:46.015
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh And you're getting no way

22:46.795 --> 22:49.578
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Thomas will call me and he's like, oh, I got all these five things.

22:49.618 --> 22:51.620
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, but like is that a side quest.

22:52.101 --> 22:55.183
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know, I'll call him and I'll be like, I want to do these 15 things.

22:55.224 --> 23:08.176
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

23:09.810 --> 23:18.799
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but you know what it is is that you know because you know you can become you can become like the feature geek Right like this has to be added.

23:18.839 --> 23:20.120
[SPEAKER_00]: This has to be added, right?

23:20.180 --> 23:21.441
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like accessories, right?

23:21.461 --> 23:23.103
[SPEAKER_00]: And the next thing you know you haven't actually

23:24.074 --> 23:26.237
[SPEAKER_00]: Walked out the door because your hair's not perfect.

23:26.257 --> 23:41.717
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep rushing your teeth right like everything has to be perfect for everything But you just have to solve a baseline problem and then the other thing about it is to It want to ask you this time is how do you guys not get caught up in the flavor of the moment right because now everything's like an immediate you know

23:42.798 --> 23:43.839
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to work this correctly.

23:44.460 --> 23:52.208
[SPEAKER_00]: What gets the news on the front page, you know, a Google news, is like, could be the end thing that everybody has to suddenly start doing.

23:52.468 --> 24:06.342
[SPEAKER_00]: But if goal starts, like, we don't need to get caught in that feature trap too quickly, because maybe this is a bubble, and maybe it's just like, you know, a hot-to-kind of situation, you know, I'm saying, kind of, we're, you know, here one minute gone the next, you know, I'm saying.

24:07.139 --> 24:08.922
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll flip the flash the pan, right?

24:08.962 --> 24:09.223
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

24:09.323 --> 24:17.336
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's, there's one thing that I, you know, I, I realize I couldn't keep up, right?

24:17.396 --> 24:20.180
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, one of the best parts about, you know,

24:22.090 --> 24:26.373
[SPEAKER_02]: growing up and going inside it is like one agency's a hell of a drug.

24:26.393 --> 24:33.637
[SPEAKER_02]: As soon as you start finding out that you have agency and that you can start choosing, I want to build this to, I want to do this and it starts getting more and more addicted.

24:33.737 --> 24:39.001
[SPEAKER_02]: I think everybody your listeners and then you included suffer from the how hard can it be.

24:39.909 --> 24:45.336
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my gosh, is that like Michael and I sat with and we go, yeah, how are can it be?

24:45.797 --> 24:55.289
[SPEAKER_02]: Very hard apparently like I just like we the the best phrase I heard about this is we didn't We didn't do this we don't want to do this because we it's easy right

24:55.890 --> 24:57.671
[SPEAKER_02]: We did this because we thought it was easy, right?

24:57.691 --> 24:58.571
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, okay, all right.

24:58.631 --> 24:59.771
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a fair.

24:59.791 --> 25:00.151
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

25:00.992 --> 25:11.375
[SPEAKER_02]: And so where we're at right now is like the, especially like, you know, and I can, you know, let's speak to, you know, my experience in the aerospace industry or in the HBS.

25:12.668 --> 25:17.934
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that there are far less people in control than you would think there are far less adults in the room.

25:17.974 --> 25:25.342
[SPEAKER_02]: There is like when someone asks in terms of you goes, well, what should we do, right, you start going, oh, okay, that's me.

25:25.442 --> 25:30.909
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I have the I'm I'm going to be doing this, okay, and you start taking on the challenge, okay, let's bring this up together.

25:30.929 --> 25:32.971
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's figure out how hard it can be.

25:33.471 --> 25:33.712
[SPEAKER_02]: The

25:34.295 --> 25:44.249
[SPEAKER_02]: benefit of like in in building all this and understanding it was that, okay, I, I need to understand that this is the the smallest change I can make for us.

25:44.549 --> 25:47.734
[SPEAKER_02]: We were to think of NADN, which was building workflow diagrams.

25:48.154 --> 25:50.577
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I sat there and I go, I hate this.

25:51.198 --> 26:11.210
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to build like I got to build something that builds these and then we started there and then it evolved and like okay and I'm like now this now it's a tool that builds tools okay well if we can't we can't keep using it and and right and you start going okay well how hard can it be all right well what's the next improvement and then you start complaining to yourself or complaining to your co-von or it's moving you're starting with your you know colleagues

26:11.990 --> 26:15.233
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, wait, someone's got to solve this and go, I can.

26:15.573 --> 26:17.234
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, all right, let's figure it out.

26:17.274 --> 26:18.275
[SPEAKER_02]: How hard can it be, right?

26:18.315 --> 26:23.359
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we have more resources and tools and knowledge than ever to be able to go, hey, I got this problem.

26:24.160 --> 26:25.021
[SPEAKER_02]: What have people done before?

26:25.401 --> 26:26.382
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't need to reinvent the wheel.

26:26.422 --> 26:28.043
[SPEAKER_02]: I just need to know what lessons learned are.

26:28.444 --> 26:28.704
[SPEAKER_02]: The right.

26:29.444 --> 26:31.945
[SPEAKER_01]: between like two people in a bunch of coffee and these A.I.

26:32.146 --> 26:35.087
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think you're pretty much anything else.

26:35.367 --> 26:35.687
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

26:35.747 --> 26:36.768
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna be terrible.

26:36.848 --> 26:38.249
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not gonna be that fun.

26:38.649 --> 26:38.849
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

26:38.869 --> 26:42.531
[SPEAKER_01]: In the end of it, you can get out and you're like, kind of is actually pretty good.

26:42.591 --> 26:42.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

26:43.511 --> 26:43.851
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

26:43.911 --> 26:47.933
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, obviously, you know, you usually keep things really, you know, lighthearted.

26:47.993 --> 26:50.054
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a kind of a serious question of both you all.

26:50.715 --> 26:51.975
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't have to get too deep.

26:52.295 --> 26:57.178
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's the labor regulatory space that you guys have to navigate because you know that?

26:57.678 --> 27:11.926
[SPEAKER_00]: for lack of better term, it gets all the attention of the politics of it, and you're saying, okay, I got a navigate being an innovative company, but I also know that there are some things that could come down that could impact me based on whatever piece of paperwork it's signed and legislation.

27:13.912 --> 27:20.041
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been enough time in legislation on the Hill, unfortunately, to suffer through that.

27:20.061 --> 27:20.842
[SPEAKER_02]: God helped you.

27:20.862 --> 27:22.705
[SPEAKER_02]: God helped you.

27:22.765 --> 27:24.507
[SPEAKER_02]: God helped you.

27:24.547 --> 27:25.909
[SPEAKER_02]: I was praying to one God or another.

27:25.929 --> 27:27.091
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's start running out.

27:29.354 --> 27:35.657
[SPEAKER_02]: And so as we're going on that in the keeping the act of the director of bodies, I say they're the same for a keep track of the technology.

27:35.677 --> 27:35.837
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

27:35.937 --> 27:42.100
[SPEAKER_02]: But when I moved to Boston recently, I didn't know anybody, I didn't know who talked or how to go.

27:42.140 --> 27:45.642
[SPEAKER_02]: And I got started involved in the community, right, which was kind of what I wanted to hand me home to Richard.

27:45.662 --> 27:48.423
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's worth it's waiting gold these days.

27:48.903 --> 27:57.847
[SPEAKER_02]: is that I can't keep truck up all of the new innovations, but I can meet with people who are going to bring in their own towns or bring in their own to think they heard or friend and does this thing.

27:58.107 --> 28:11.533
[SPEAKER_02]: And you start building this network where it operates like Dunbar's number, which is the most amount of people that you can physically interact with, they're operating with projects or operations, and it's a being a part of hackathon, right?

28:11.553 --> 28:13.554
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, all right, we're all going to work to build this same thing.

28:13.634 --> 28:15.255
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a community with the unified direction.

28:15.816 --> 28:20.280
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and that's where you really get the benefit when it comes like legal and regulatory bodies, right?

28:20.360 --> 28:33.049
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, the exchange of left and right and I would say getting like those the founders that you're with talking to other founders talking to other community, building community of the people that help you keep track of this and you know, hey, I actually did this.

28:33.329 --> 28:36.812
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, actually a new op past in the film text me like hey, we got to watch out for this, right?

28:36.832 --> 28:41.736
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and yeah, it's it's it's I, you know, to to buy you know,

28:42.036 --> 28:43.156
[SPEAKER_02]: to Michael's credit as well.

28:43.577 --> 28:48.999
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's a time where I flew out to DC just to sit with the lobbyists and figure out how this worked.

28:49.019 --> 28:50.979
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I don't understand what you do all day.

28:51.239 --> 28:51.720
[SPEAKER_00]: You teach me.

28:52.200 --> 28:53.260
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, oh, okay.

28:53.340 --> 28:55.001
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what we do to make our jobs easier.

28:55.021 --> 28:58.182
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is the, and it has like, oh, nothing stopping from just reaching out and asking.

28:58.322 --> 28:59.142
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right, right, right, right.

28:59.162 --> 28:59.622
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's try that.

28:59.642 --> 28:59.742
[SPEAKER_02]: 100%.

28:59.762 --> 28:59.943
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

28:59.963 --> 29:00.623
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Very game.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Michael.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, yeah, for real, but you kind of nailed it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Also, like, I think it's moving so quickly that like the, a lot of the legal frameworks and like a lot of the like formal legal mechanisms can't move the staffs to this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we can see in the technology just like move it, let's see, nothing has really stopped the, the Fable 5 command recently.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you guys talked about that, but I am not the first one where we were like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is interesting, but like, also we're not doing anything illegal or like incorrect, we make very clear of that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're not doing anything with these agents that we wouldn't be doing ourselves.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, you know, we're operating within the bounds of the law.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I'd say, I'd say this tag on, just this is not legal advice.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I would say that everyone who is the bug is there are people who spent spend their time careers helping navigate these laws and they are, you can talk to them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It is worth talking to like accounts for understanding their business and legal advice.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a doctor.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to talk to them.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But there is, yeah, there's a lot to do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I only asked that because, you know, I've been the fortunate distinction where the people haven't regulated a podcast yet, so I'm just like, man, you know, I'm glad I'm not in that world, but at the end of the day, you can't stop being innovative, certainly isn't given legal advice, but you know, everybody who's in the industry certainly keeps abreast to all the things that are involving your industry respectively.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, more importantly, I want to make a great announcement.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, this show has partnered with Coolstar AI and it is a great opportunity to know that you guys are working with people that I've interviewed and will continue to do so because in case people are, you know,

30:50.995 --> 31:06.025
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, our unaware of how what this show is about, it's about reaching that broader entrepreneurial audience, taking things off your plate, and streamlining workflows, and even if you just want to be a listener to this show, get with these guys and make your life a little bit easier.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Happy to help.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And if there's any questions you your audience has, right, and this is the goal to give everyone this knowledge.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're, we don't go stars from experiment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was, it was a test of whether you could build a ton of company any learnings that we can provide, we want to.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Because it should be a rising tide that floats all boats.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So when we have to, we got to look out for each other.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, you know, I always call myself a social introvert, right?

31:30.361 --> 31:34.862
[SPEAKER_00]: I talk to a lot of people, but you know, this is my way of, I'm a terrible networker in college, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So this is my way of kind of making up for it, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's, it's great that we've had this opportunity.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so psyched.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully the first of many times.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and, I mean, yeah, like you said this partnership is, is amazing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.

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[UNKNOWN]: It's good to go.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Before we go, I have to make sure people know where to find you guys.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so our website is goldstarworkflow.com.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a form on there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can just enter your email and go number and a little bit about yourself.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then we do actually offer complimentary AI audits for any business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want us to take a look and see where would AI be most impactful, where is it supposed to be a little bit old?

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[SPEAKER_01]: based on what we're seeing for your business for more than happy to do that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So just submit a form or, you know, if you reach out to, to Versailles on the, the Toronto website, I'm sure you have to create a lot of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I could have talked to anybody like Thomas said a rising time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's all those.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're just trying to possibly be able to solve school.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you guys have stayed on the front of innovation and technology and, you know, I wish I had your guys an ambition at the age that you guys read.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I really do, you know, but this is my small nugget of the earth.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is the randomest and nothing podcast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I get a chance to talk to the guys at Gold Star AI.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you tune into what these guys have to offer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you have any questions, but please subscribe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: These guys are great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Create individuals and they're more to come from their wonderful innovator company.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, guys.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Galey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Take care.