From Fraternity Kitchen to Franchise Empire: Matt Friedman on Building Wing Zone From Scratch

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[SPEAKER_01]: You've enjoyed the food, now you get to hear the story.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is the American Dream of Pidimized about a young man who was in college to university of Florida who had 500 bucks in the dream and turned it into a national international brand with nothing and you enjoy the food every single day.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is an absolute honor to pleasure to have Matt Freeman on here, former CEO and founder of Wingson.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, sir.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For sure, I'd pleasure love your positivity, you're excited, you kind of, you know, blew me up a little bit in our pre-call, but I'm just like you, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I put the shorts or the pants on one leg at a time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, you know, what's craziest is I just picture a guy, you know, with his friends on a weekend, you know, putting something together and then one day say, hey, take this and then next thing, you know, it kind of starts coming organically, people coming over, I don't want us to tell your story.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But in picturing that in my mind, because I've been on, you know, I've graduated from Michigan State and I could kind of have that feeling on a college campus.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great point and I'll tell you that there's so many great business ideas that come from just hanging out with your buddies or talking to your family.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The real question that so many people probably ask themselves is how do you take this ideation, this idea and actually put it to real world testing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think my story, which is so interesting of not having money, not having experience, but having a facility where I can test it with a target audience was really an awesome foundation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so now let's dive into that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You're at your friend house.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was in 1993 for everybody knows this is pre-social media.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you really had to rely on word of mouth and your friend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No internet, really.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's right, right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was 11 or 12, but I think we got like our first acer computer right and it was basic right you know a well kind of a deal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So let's let's dive right into that and then we'll dive into your other accomplishments in life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well first of all, I think it's interesting for the audience to kind of reflect back.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm 55 right now, 1993, I was a 21 year old college student, going into my last year of school.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we didn't have the resources that we have today, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I love to tell people that I started this business, true fact, with a $500 investment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want anyone that's listening to think, and I got to go raise $8 million to start my business, 500 bucks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think just to kind of put it into perspective,

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[SPEAKER_00]: the first thing we did was we had a telephone line install the landline in our fraternity house kitchen and so like that's how people ordered you know at that time it was called wing in it but you know they would pick up the phone they would dial 377 bird it's a funny story wing was taken but I got bird and we would manually take their order so telephone line installed

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, think about gorilla marketing or grassroots marketing like we didn't have there was no social media it was no radio commercials it was a printed menu right like it didn't look as nice as this it was just a

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it was interesting because I would stand on campus all day, just having out flyers and, you know, and people were really resonating with it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the last thing is, you know, we had to like kind of stock the shelves as a lot of people say, but we didn't have a lot of money to stock the shelves.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for us, the perfect place to go buy product was Sam's club, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Goodbye, our.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Styrofoam boxes are tin foil or you know Frank's red hot some butter some wings and fries and and only Coca-Cola We didn't offer any other drink other than Coca-Cola not even Diet Coke or Sprite So that's how you start a business when you really are starting at the International level yeah

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think what happens to is that people overthink it, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And to your point, you think you have to have, you know, a lot of money, or you think you have to overcomplicate it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You were passionate about it, and you wanted to see people satisfy with the food that you were serving them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, because you're passionate with your food and because the response, sometimes people think of sales as this really, really kind of, you know,

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[SPEAKER_01]: kind of, what, you know, Wolf of Wall Street kind of thing where you're trying to settle scam people out of things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All you're doing is providing a service that need and they're willing to come back for more until they're friends.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're absolutely right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think because I was young, naive, a lack of experience, I was like, listen, I just, I love wings.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is a great idea to deliver wings to hungry college students.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so let's not overthinking in fact, in my book, I talk about the one page business plan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so many people say, oh, you have got this great business idea.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let me send you this 74 page power point deck about what it is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you need to be able to tell me or the world, what you do in your business in probably like 60 seconds on one piece of paper.

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[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The attention span of people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the interesting thing also I want to share is, you know, I think it was really important and even for the listeners out there that you really have to understand your target audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I was that college student, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have a vehicle

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I also, you know, during the time when I started wings zone, I was living in my frat house.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I had this desire to have food delivered, yeah, specifically what I call the fourth meal, which for college students is the third meal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: College students don't need breakfast, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: No.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Not at all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hunches, lunches, then you're dinner, and then you have this meal after 10 p.m.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I clearly knew, like, hey, here's my audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We were not open for lunch.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We were open, you know, I think we opened from 7 p.m. to 2 a.m. And we knew our captive audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a great message for people to say, you don't have to be all things to all people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now you need to have enough of an audience where this business can do enough revenue and be profitable.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I knew clearly like the residential consumer that in Gainesville that was married in two kids that lived Seven miles from campus.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like that wasn't even on my radar exactly exactly it was that kid that you know Got back from class or got back from playing basketball with his friends and playing Frisbee every other restaurant was closed And here he is having a crash and write a paper and suddenly he's like, hey man 11 o'clock night.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I really need to get to the rest of this night

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but truthfully, Rashad, and I think, you know, that's accurate, but bars closed at 130.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There was a reason we were open till 2 a.m. That's true, too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's true, too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You have some competition on college campuses.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is this a saturated market, too?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a, you know, it's a consumer world of mouth and spread very quickly, well, as well as bad, too, because that consumer base is congested in a very small space, even though college campuses are large, you know, it doesn't take long for trends and tastes to spread very quickly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt, and I think that's where, you know, we being one of them, it was almost like this, this interesting like urban legend, like I heard these two guys in this frat house started this chicken wing concept and they're delivering out of there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, no, that's not true.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's not accurate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But interesting story,

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[SPEAKER_00]: We were fortunate enough to test in our frat house when we were there for about five months operating this business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it wasn't, it wasn't the most legal business, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now we weren't doing anything illegal, but we didn't have a license.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't have health department approval.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And eventually the university came in who owned the house and said, you know, listen, guys, you can't do this, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it was very interesting because they came in and said, we heard that this was happening, but we actually didn't believe it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we wanted to come here and see it firsthand.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing about it though, it's like, you knew you were on to something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, it goes from out of your dorm room.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, out of your fraternity house, you're pivoting.

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[SPEAKER_01]: When did it become a restaurant model and then eventually a franchise model?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because obviously, we want to get to your other career, your speaking career.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm really interested in the kind of the condensed version of this story.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a really incredible story that dealt with a lot of challenges, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you can, you can bootstrap your way into kind of a hybrid model like we operated.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we had this great success.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We had revenue.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We had profit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We had a customer base.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I figured, wow, this is, I'm going to go to a bank and I'm going to say, here's my business plan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was a little bit more detailed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was I think we were trying to borrow like 75 grand to open our first real restaurant and I got to declined by I think it was a dozen banks and it was like, why would you deny me and it's like, well, this is a startup.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You've got no real capital behind you and it was kind of like one of those light bulb moments, real card.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I got a pivot right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I talk about this in my book and I think it's very obvious, as a business startup, there's a statistic put out by the SBA that I think 82% of business startups really get funded through friends and family or outside capital.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the traditional, like, listen, banks will banks now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They lent us money for years in scaling the business, but that's when we had, you know, real financials.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, going from the Frat House to our first storefront really took a leap of faith by,

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[SPEAKER_00]: really my parents and my business partners parents who ended up really co-signing a loan for us to be able to actually open our first storefront which opened in 1994.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now I don't want the audience to think that we built this absolutely beautiful, amazing restaurant like this was lipstick on a pig right like

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[SPEAKER_00]: 1,200 square feet next to campus.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was formally a bakery.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We went in there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We, you know, cleaned it up as much as we could.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We put in some friars, you know, slapped a chicken on the window and said, we're open for business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was amazing that we had some people that would kind of back us on our dream and our passion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say that, you know, being a single unit operator, I mean, we did everything, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I had graduated.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This was my passion.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I was, you know, if I had to take deliveries, if I had to cook, if I had to mount the floors, if I had to, you know, run around town.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, this is what I did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I know this sounds crazy because it's 2026, but for the first

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[SPEAKER_00]: Just a salary right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't married.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have kids My rented my apartment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think was like 250 a month You know we're going back many years But to me it was like all right, we're gonna make this thing a success and the crazy thing is

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[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, in business you have to have some good fortune, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We had tested it, the consumer base was there, and we opened up and like we're profitable from day one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I was able to kind of build the business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and then really pay off that loan within our first year of business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So now we have one location where debt free and I feel like I'm playing with house money, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you ever go to a casino, I'm not a big gambler, but you know, if you're like, hey, I'm up 300 bucks I'm playing with house money, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, but it's interesting because a lot of people can start a successful business but then how do you scale that business,

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[SPEAKER_00]: We went from one company on location to seven in a period of six years and then we went from zero franchises to whatever it was 140 franchise locations in about a 19 year period.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's, um, so I think I think to to answer your question, that was the the first way to get the first one off the ground and then it was like, okay, how do we duplicate this to, you know, complete some additional growth.

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[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, for us, and I always believe that the model and your business is always evolving, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: We learned things on how to buy products better, how to schedule better, how to market better.

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[SPEAKER_00]: how to increase our profitability.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's always felt like the next store we would open would be, we're gonna do this one better, and we're gonna learn from it and some of those things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it was store four that we opened in Tallahassee.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We were doing college markets all in the Southeast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that was 1996, we opened in Tallahassee.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it was the first time where I was like, man, we got this down.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we have nailed it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We got the right location.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we were doing back then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the revenue we were doing was about a million dollars a year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Remember, 1996, like that is an insane amount of volume we were putting through it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think our business was profiting somewhere around a quarter million a year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, wow, we now we got to figure out how to duplicate this and really kind of franchise

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[SPEAKER_00]: Pivotal times in our career.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The first one was the first location.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then it was building out a small group of company own stores and then the franchising of wings own.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now I do want to share with the audience that each of those phases were very different, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's okay to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people can run a successful business, then can you run successful multiple businesses and then franchising to me was just a different animal but one a model that I fell in love with.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm a talker for sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's put me off any time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't I cut you off, I'm just, listen, I take every bit of antidote that people are telling and it's versus, I, I, one thing that I will never do on this show is tell somebody to tell their story and then tell them to stop telling this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to be clear about that because, you know, if this is just that people typically have to have very hard access to get access to and I had been luxury of getting people on my show to talk about their story.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So please continue.

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[SPEAKER_00]: great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So one thing I also want to share and I obviously will talk about the franchise inside, but I realized we started franchising in 2001.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Remember that was really eight years from the Frat House and called seven years from the first real location.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So it wasn't like we just rushed into it because franchising is a completely different business model for me and I realized that

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I had a part the same partner my fraternity brother Adam for 27 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I do talk about this in my book and I'll share it with the audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: To me, having a partner was one of the best decisions I made in business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that it's like anything else.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you if you pick the right partner, it's beautiful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you pick the wrong partner, it can be a nightmare.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the one thing that Adam and I why we had such a successful partnership is we brought different skill sets to the table.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was an incredible financial brain.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was great at technology.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He'd love to make sure the eyes were dotted in the teas were crossed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I'm in marketing and operations.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I love to be in restaurants engaging with the team and our customers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we just wore different hats.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But going back to the franchising thing, I said to Adam, I said,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Adam, I think we got a divide in conquer here like we can't all do everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So why don't you focus on our company own stores for now, make sure that they're rocking and, you know, the dollars are going where they should and let me kind of, you know, work on the franchising side of things put the systems in place and engage with potential franchisees.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, um,

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the young age, I think I was 29 at the time, I really really moved to running wings-owned franchising as my full-time focus.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

17:07.313 --> 17:08.593
[SPEAKER_01]: I find that fascinating.

17:08.633 --> 17:17.835
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, who are the people just briefly that really had to kind of come on board to kind of guide you through that where there's some private equity groups where they're starting to get some lawyers?

17:17.875 --> 17:20.976
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it doesn't have, you know, names and condensed version kind of.

17:21.356 --> 17:25.097
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're had to have been some subject matter experts that you had to get along the way to really

17:26.977 --> 17:27.518
[SPEAKER_00]: no doubt.

17:27.718 --> 17:38.124
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I'm a big, I could not afford to bring on like a season executive that had taken Papa John's or Domino's jersey mics.

17:38.344 --> 17:45.368
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know if they're around, but so I really looked at kind of outsourced experts, right?

17:45.428 --> 17:46.489
[SPEAKER_00]: So we worked with

17:46.892 --> 17:57.457
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, a consulting group that their main role was to help a business or a brand convert or put the pieces in place to franchise their model.

17:57.517 --> 18:00.498
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the, how do you attract franchises?

18:00.558 --> 18:05.020
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your process in how you help franchises succeed?

18:06.801 --> 18:08.622
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's the legal requirements?

18:09.442 --> 18:20.968
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of those things were really helpful and I think, you know, we ended up spending about $100,000 to kind of work with this group or several groups and it was money well spent.

18:21.028 --> 18:26.271
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do remember that when we had gone through the whole process and we were kind of done, right?

18:26.291 --> 18:35.456
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, okay, you guys are we've done our work and it's almost like a handshake across the table and I was like, damn, like, what do I do now?

18:40.479 --> 18:43.541
[SPEAKER_00]: So then it's like, all right, you know, that now it's kind of up to me.

18:43.581 --> 18:58.870
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think one thing that early on we realized was that we needed people that weren't incredibly passionate about the wing zone brand to become our first franchisees and I tapped into really some of my store managers.

18:59.150 --> 19:00.871
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a great model because

19:01.231 --> 19:20.378
[SPEAKER_00]: Our first two franchisees were people that worked for me for who I don't know maybe six or seven years they knew the business and and so they were like man I'm going I want this like I see how well you guys are doing I'm passionate about it and so that was a little that was a smart move because in franchising.

19:21.923 --> 19:37.629
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the reality is, is people want to validate with your franchisees, not only do want to validate the numbers and, you know, is Matt and Adam a good guy, you know, is this business profitable, but they want to say, like, hey, do these, do these people care about you?

19:37.649 --> 19:40.530
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to support me in some of those times.

19:40.610 --> 19:46.973
[SPEAKER_00]: So having a few franchisees to start that we're kind of homegrown was a really smart move for us.

19:47.213 --> 19:54.476
[SPEAKER_01]: That's wonderful, and I obviously worked out really well because you eventually expanded to believe a hundred and forty stores if I'm not mistaken, correct me for a long time.

19:54.856 --> 20:11.482
[SPEAKER_01]: But whatever you figured out in that fraternity house, you know, in getting the people that were correct, that were closest to the ground in servicing the customer and representing your brand properly, it all worked itself out, and again, it's because you were passionate about what you were servicing to the customers.

20:11.842 --> 20:27.191
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, there are a couple better near my house than like when I saw you know message me and your team messaging me you know sometimes you're not near the person who provides the service that I'm interviewing and I'm like oh my gosh like this is amazing like this this is the guy that started this.

20:27.371 --> 20:32.714
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and I think you know throughout I share this with you kind of before we went on air but

20:34.491 --> 20:35.071
[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird.

20:35.091 --> 20:39.113
[SPEAKER_00]: I always viewed it as kind of a small family business.

20:39.233 --> 20:47.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I never really viewed it as, I guess the entrepreneurship, I don't think you ever reach like a pinnacle of success and say, oh, I've made it, right?

20:47.815 --> 20:48.775
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to me.

20:48.915 --> 20:51.516
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the driving factor in who you are.

20:51.556 --> 20:53.957
[SPEAKER_00]: If I listen, I think we should have had a thousand stores.

20:53.997 --> 20:55.397
[SPEAKER_00]: And we should have done more business.

20:55.437 --> 20:57.238
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think for me, it was always,

20:58.858 --> 21:15.726
[SPEAKER_00]: It always kind of went back to where the humble beginning started and I never kind of felt like we were bigger than what we had attained so to speak and I think that's a really important lesson like no matter what level of success you're having or even challenges.

21:17.108 --> 21:19.890
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you got a stake rounded in kind of what you're doing.

21:19.970 --> 21:32.539
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you, even as I exited the business in 2021, I mean, even in my last few years, I mean, I was still working hard and sure, you know, grinding and, and, you know, you know, continue to do it.

21:32.820 --> 21:37.083
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, for me, it was, you know, I think it's interesting.

21:37.103 --> 21:39.805
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people ask me, like, why did you exit the business?

21:40.897 --> 21:42.738
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a series of things.

21:42.778 --> 21:45.179
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I was 49 at the time.

21:45.219 --> 21:46.660
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to be turning 50.

21:46.800 --> 21:48.521
[SPEAKER_00]: And I asked myself one simple question.

21:48.541 --> 21:53.564
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, do I want to do this for the rest of my professional career?

21:54.124 --> 21:54.884
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

21:54.964 --> 21:56.585
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have a legacy plan.

21:57.046 --> 22:02.408
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that Adam and I owned the company, 100%, we had no debt, we had no investors.

22:02.448 --> 22:03.469
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just two of us.

22:04.913 --> 22:05.153
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

22:05.213 --> 22:09.877
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I said, you know, I really, I kind of want to do something else.

22:09.977 --> 22:20.024
[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like I really wanted to kind of help other entrepreneurs kind of navigate through their business, you know, void, so to speak and it's amazing.

22:20.064 --> 22:24.187
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it was really just a life decision.

22:24.207 --> 22:31.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's notice part financial decision of rewarding yourself for 27 years of the grind, so to speak.

22:32.092 --> 22:34.335
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, but um, I don't regret it.

22:34.415 --> 22:35.356
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I miss it.

22:35.416 --> 22:44.067
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I missed it so much that five years after exiting I'm now the CEO of a chicken brand out of San Diego called Epic Wing.

22:44.147 --> 22:46.670
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I guess when it's in your blood It's in your blood.

22:46.771 --> 22:49.154
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got a full circle moment kind of a speed right put

22:49.554 --> 22:52.677
[SPEAKER_01]: And to your point, like you were multiple hacks, right?

22:52.737 --> 23:01.004
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you have your own consulting and now you do franchise growth and strategy, franchise coaching, professional speaking, business education.

23:01.404 --> 23:03.486
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's not like you ever really left.

23:03.826 --> 23:11.413
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think what the coolest part about this all is is that nobody kind of pulled you off to the side and said, we're going to be your coach, we're going to be your mentor.

23:11.553 --> 23:21.999
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a, you know, you went through the blood sweat tears, you know, mopping buckets, you know, mopping floors, cleaning bathrooms and like, okay, if you're not willing to get your hands dirty, then this is probably not going to be for you.

23:22.459 --> 23:35.006
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think also to, to kind of kick myself in the butt a little bit, is I was a little bit too, too stubborn to kind of take on some, some advice and expertise of people that had done it.

23:35.146 --> 23:39.169
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what I, what I did the last five years was I worked with

23:39.949 --> 23:47.373
[SPEAKER_00]: eight to ten entrepreneurs that had a successful business that were really trying to navigate where they go from here.

23:47.473 --> 23:51.174
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they franchise, they not franchise, you know, what are some of the challenges?

23:51.214 --> 23:59.078
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you, as I went through this, I saw myself in them and I was really proud to be like, man, I'm helping these people.

24:00.159 --> 24:21.376
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that was part of the reason I also wrote my book, because I think I wanted to just share it with more than just the eight to ten people that had hired me, I wanted to share it with, you know, an audience that's saying, okay, let me learn from this guy and I think the one thing I, this is not a plug on the book, it's just saying, I think the books very honest, it's not like,

24:22.277 --> 24:24.038
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is match house.

24:24.299 --> 24:25.519
[SPEAKER_00]: This is match boat.

24:25.880 --> 24:33.225
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like, let me tell you guys about the grind and the numerous mistakes I made throughout my career.

24:33.565 --> 24:35.787
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that you can learn from those things.

24:36.147 --> 24:42.912
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that too, what also helps is that to a degree you didn't have social media because there's not that outside pressure of

24:43.292 --> 25:01.678
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, somebody attained a level of success and they're showing it in your face, you know, because a lot of times what people have now is they want the immediate satisfaction because they see something on the internet or they see an Instagram reel or they see something, but they don't see the story behind it, they don't see the years of dedication, hard work, mistakes.

25:02.038 --> 25:09.841
[SPEAKER_01]: So by not having that quote unquote white noise to speak while you're building this, you're just basically on the go and you're like, okay, I'm going to figure it out.

25:13.002 --> 25:15.064
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, you know, universally Florida says I can't do it.

25:15.384 --> 25:20.589
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I got my customer basal and then two asshole said kind of deal, I'm just going to move out of the way.

25:20.789 --> 25:21.189
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.

25:21.209 --> 25:28.215
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I also like to be like, think of 27 years from the beginning to the exit.

25:28.555 --> 25:32.139
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that is, that is a massive amount of time.

25:32.199 --> 25:37.283
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, understand that there is this instant gratification that people aren't like,

25:37.630 --> 25:39.533
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I have this great concept.

25:39.733 --> 25:43.237
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to go, I want to open 100 stores in the next two years.

25:43.278 --> 25:45.581
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, no, you don't, you do not want to do that.

25:45.661 --> 25:46.602
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's it.

25:48.001 --> 25:53.782
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, like that is a crash and burn likelihood because no one can handle that sort of growth.

25:54.262 --> 25:55.443
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

25:56.383 --> 26:17.848
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I think the other thing that I think just to share with the audience that I think is really important is, you know, you have to no one is expecting you to be perfect and you should reach out to other people that maybe have a level of experience or even failure in your field to learn from it.

26:18.588 --> 26:34.319
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes entrepreneurs and people, they're too humble to really ask for advice, and I think it's it's really Listen, I tell people a time like let's just say you wanted to reach out to Let's just use me as an example.

26:34.659 --> 26:38.341
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm thinking about starting a restaurant franchise Or I've got this great business idea.

26:38.361 --> 26:39.182
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to reach out to Matt

26:41.490 --> 27:00.383
[SPEAKER_00]: 99% of the time they won't send it and they're afraid that they're going to send to me and be like And I'm going to respond back and say why the hell are you emailing me like Or you need to pay me a thousand dollars mean while the reality is as most people want to help other people

27:00.583 --> 27:01.244
[SPEAKER_01]: I noticed that.

27:01.264 --> 27:02.466
[SPEAKER_01]: I have noticed that.

27:02.526 --> 27:17.807
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the cynical side of people where you're like, you know, obviously you'll weed out the people that are willing to put in the work with the additional question to like, okay, well, they seem inaccessible or it seems like it's too good that a CEO of a franchise wing company would want to talk to.

27:18.207 --> 27:21.469
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, me, you know, trying to get this off the ground on the side.

27:21.529 --> 27:23.450
[SPEAKER_01]: When in reality, you were that same person.

27:23.811 --> 27:24.811
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't, you know what?

27:24.851 --> 27:25.412
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm not.

27:25.772 --> 27:29.814
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the other thing is maybe I think this is an amazing business idea.

27:30.235 --> 27:30.415
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

27:30.435 --> 27:31.756
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I would invest in it.

27:32.016 --> 27:33.997
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I have someone that would invest in it.

27:34.037 --> 27:34.738
[SPEAKER_00]: You never know.

27:34.798 --> 27:34.978
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,

27:35.518 --> 27:36.158
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

27:36.398 --> 27:50.501
[SPEAKER_00]: The next great business idea is probably going to start with someone in their, you know, in their basement or their living room saying, hey, I've got this great idea or I've got, you know, I feel like I really want to take this leap of faith.

27:50.661 --> 27:53.502
[SPEAKER_00]: Most people talk about starting a business,

27:59.103 --> 28:26.533
[SPEAKER_00]: That if you've got, you know, family commitments and other things, it's really hard for me, one of the things that I think was advantageous was that when I started wings zone and I was in my growth years, I was not married, I didn't have any kids like I this was my focus and I think as life gets a little bit going on, there are more responsibilities that make it a little bit harder to take that leap.

28:27.051 --> 28:28.072
[SPEAKER_01]: That question.

28:28.172 --> 28:29.613
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the reality about it, right?

28:29.653 --> 28:39.321
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, when you want to get something off the ground and you have a kindergarten or talking at your leg, sometimes that kindergarten to take precedence in your dream can be pushed back.

28:39.401 --> 28:44.645
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's also very important to act on these things because time will ultimately pass you by.

28:44.925 --> 28:48.588
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is done and we're sure not everyone's an entrepreneur.

28:48.669 --> 28:49.950
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay, right?

28:54.756 --> 28:55.697
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't know.

28:55.717 --> 28:57.538
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just, I was wired a little different way.

28:57.578 --> 29:02.861
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I've looked at friends go through corporate America and be very successful and that's great for them.

29:03.661 --> 29:10.205
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just, for me, I really loved the freedom and the challenge of kind of creating my own path.

29:10.685 --> 29:13.086
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's kind of how I've lived my life.

29:13.166 --> 29:22.452
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think even in my new role as CEO of Epic Wings, this is a, you know, as a 33-unit chain based in Southern California.

29:22.692 --> 29:23.192
[SPEAKER_00]: Wonderful.

29:23.372 --> 29:34.304
[SPEAKER_00]: family owned been there 40 years, but I look at it as man, this is an incredible opportunity for me to kind of do it again and, you know, kind of scaleless thing.

29:34.504 --> 29:37.808
[SPEAKER_01]: Just brief question about the food industry and the restaurant industry.

29:37.948 --> 29:39.850
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, and I say this respectfully.

29:40.270 --> 29:41.651
[SPEAKER_01]: it's a saturated market, right?

29:41.771 --> 29:47.014
[SPEAKER_01]: It's truly like, I mean there's a lot of places where people like to go just like the podcast industry who's no different than what I do.

29:47.134 --> 29:52.558
[SPEAKER_01]: How does a company stand out to get that dedicated base when somebody can duplicate a recipe?

29:52.878 --> 30:02.164
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they have the exact same menu offerings, the same pricing, and everything can kind of be very difficult to the non-dedicated customer to discern one from the up.

30:02.284 --> 30:24.396
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, I think you hit the nail on the head like this any business challenging right there's competition now more fierce than when I started listen when I started wings own like you could get dominoes pizza delivered in like low some local Chinese joint and that was it now you fight set and in games before it I could probably get food delivered from a thousand restaurants oh my gosh

30:25.391 --> 30:48.440
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that, first of all, I'm a huge believer in building a really strong, local and regional presence versus going national, so one thing I will tell you like that I really excited me about Epic Wings was all 33 stores are within a three-hour drive of each other.

30:49.112 --> 31:09.544
[SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful right so they they own this region so to speak and listen the truth is they opened in a few remote areas or outside of California and they failed because people don't know the brand The other thing is that I am a big believer in simplicity of model right and I think wings own was a phenomenally simple model.

31:09.964 --> 31:13.185
[SPEAKER_00]: over time, I made it not so simple.

31:13.325 --> 31:14.446
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a mistake, right?

31:14.486 --> 31:22.288
[SPEAKER_00]: We expanded much more flavors and menu and different, you know, at an alcohol and other things associated with it.

31:22.448 --> 31:27.570
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think simplicity is a foundation for consistency.

31:27.910 --> 31:30.131
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll just pose this question to your audience.

31:30.471 --> 31:33.192
[SPEAKER_00]: When you look at the places that you do

31:37.111 --> 31:52.436
[SPEAKER_00]: I guarantee you that the ones that rise to the top, maybe they're not, they don't have the best food, I'm just talking to restaurant or, or, you know, it's all these things, but they are incredibly consistent.

31:52.576 --> 31:58.258
[SPEAKER_00]: Customers will leave you when they do not believe that they will know what they're getting.

31:58.598 --> 32:04.000
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go to Wingson and you have a great experience this time and next time in the next time it's not,

32:05.464 --> 32:06.065
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.

32:06.085 --> 32:06.845
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go there again.

32:06.886 --> 32:08.427
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you go again, and it's not.

32:08.988 --> 32:09.849
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, awesome.

32:10.329 --> 32:10.930
[SPEAKER_00]: That question.

32:11.010 --> 32:13.913
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's consistency is everything.

32:14.193 --> 32:22.942
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's one thing that I do like about the new company I'm running is they are very disciplined in making sure that everything is the same in every store.

32:23.092 --> 32:31.974
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, too, before you kick yourself too much, you've obviously scaled a very successful company that you're able to exit and, you know, you're CEO of a new company at the Queens.

32:32.354 --> 32:37.956
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't, you have to try because at the same, the flip side to that is the man usually exact same.

32:38.256 --> 32:40.577
[SPEAKER_01]: Your competitor brought this new flavor along.

32:40.857 --> 32:45.878
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you had test of what people like there's some intricacies involved with that, and if it doesn't work, and that's life.

32:46.318 --> 33:05.553
[SPEAKER_01]: right you know if you know if a year from now the menu is exactly the same two years from now three years from now you know you have to evolve and sometimes those are just you know course of the action things to take place right and that's how businesses ultimately find out what consumer tastes are and that's just you know part of the game I think innovation you know I talk

33:05.973 --> 33:22.197
[SPEAKER_00]: a little bit my book and as I coach people like I talk um it's kind of my win strategy you know the I and my win strategy is innovation and I think that you have to innovate but you have to innovate through like customer engagement and education and research because

33:23.302 --> 33:30.888
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that you can't just say I'm successful today and what I'm going to do the same thing five years from now, it's going to be successful.

33:31.088 --> 33:31.808
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

33:31.948 --> 33:32.989
[SPEAKER_00]: That may not work.

33:33.089 --> 33:38.993
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess I am an avid innovator, almost to a flaw, right?

33:39.494 --> 33:40.114
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's things in life?

33:40.134 --> 33:40.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's funny.

33:40.875 --> 33:44.638
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked in my book and even as I tell stories, like

33:45.598 --> 33:50.104
[SPEAKER_00]: Adam, who's my business partner, who is an amazing business partner, right?

33:50.985 --> 33:53.568
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew I could sell him on an idea.

33:53.708 --> 33:55.410
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just knew how to pull his strings.

33:55.450 --> 33:58.934
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, Adam, this is a great idea because of this, this and this, and this we're going to do.

33:59.234 --> 34:00.916
[SPEAKER_00]: And he would be like, man, that sounds great.

34:00.936 --> 34:01.437
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it.

34:01.797 --> 34:03.900
[SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, a couple of those ideas were like, man, what?

34:04.380 --> 34:05.401
[SPEAKER_00]: What the hell are we thinking?

34:05.461 --> 34:10.547
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know what though, it's, it, I think, to you, while you're sharing that, right?

34:10.787 --> 34:21.419
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're having a partner, you bounced that off and then you can find out in that, in that quiet stage and the before you execute or put capital into it, like, let's not do that, because it's clearly not going to work.

34:21.719 --> 34:33.264
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's right, and that's, I think one of the best things that you can share is for that person that's listening, that's in their kitchen, in their basement, in their fraternity house.

34:33.504 --> 34:38.087
[SPEAKER_01]: To circle back to your beginnings, it doesn't take a lot, it just has to take something that you're passionate about.

34:38.407 --> 34:40.948
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes you have to break some rules and some health codes to get.

34:41.288 --> 34:58.406
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your need to get you know totally agree and I think that's you know everyone's like do you can you draw to have to draw between the lines hell now you don't draw between the lines like you can bounce into the walls you can even knock the walls down and that's how some of the greatest businesses have ever been created but.

34:58.726 --> 35:04.329
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think the overall message is that it was a voyage for me.

35:04.749 --> 35:08.331
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a roller coaster from great success and some challenges.

35:08.611 --> 35:12.774
[SPEAKER_00]: And I encourage people to kind of continue to kind of follow their passion.

35:14.020 --> 35:20.482
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and if you're ready to take that leap of faith, just do it, you know, ninety, ninety five percent of people will never take that leap.

35:20.642 --> 35:29.665
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, like I said, there's very few ones that I got to stoke to this one because, you know, usually, I mean, until your point, you know, like, I'm getting the emails now and it's like, weird, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm like, you got to kid me, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like people are not supposed to be emailing me that are successful.

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[SPEAKER_01]: See, you know, it's fun.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm glad something with my shirts you out, man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I listen, you know, I'm easy to find because, you know, there's not a lot of demand for me, you know, to like, get the guy that created wings.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, for the purpose of this show, but not clearly because people can't find you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we, you know, we touch briefs then you're consulting and you're coaching and you're executive leadership and you're speaking.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Work and people find that freedom.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know how to locate you, but let's talk.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so first of all, listen, I am a big believer in LinkedIn as just a great social network for business.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're on LinkedIn and you want to connect some of your message, you know, follow me, whatever the case may be great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I do have my own website, MattFriedman.com.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Good way to kind of see what I do, you know, you're more than welcome to

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know reach out to me there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My book is on Amazon.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's an Amazon best seller.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's 99 cents Kindle version.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I do that on purpose.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I just not about making money if you want the paper back of the hard cover.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's obviously a lot more money.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I also did the audio book.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a big audio book person.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're someone that has some drive time to do or like to go on walks, great way to kind of engage with that sort of thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, hit me up if you've got a question or you know, want to just connect with me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Go for it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the first leap of faith is making that contact.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're unsure of where to begin in your franchise or executive career,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Matt Freeman would be one of the greatest sources to have because he was similar to you, where you had it thought the differences he acted on that thought and he saw the success that came from it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I got to tell you like, you know, I look forward to this one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I hope I was prepared and I hope you had a good experience on my show, the randomness of nothing but a test.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome job, Ashak.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's been an honor and pleasure.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Wish you nothing but continued success.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.